No Vedas and Brahmins in Sumerian Hinduismமரபு விக்கி இருந்துNo Vedas and Brahmins in Sumerian Hinduism Dr K.Loganathan Jan 2011 I have already shown in many of my studies that the religion available in Sumerian literature is the temple-centered Agamism(or Tantrism). Here we can locate the presence of Yajna as part of the Solar Cosmology, but there is NO MENTION of the Vedas and Brahmins as the custodians of these Vedas and Hinduism as such. Thus it appears that the composition of the Vedas, their organization into the Three and later Four Vedas and along with this the birth of Brahmanism with its evil and criminal VarNasrama Dharma, are later developments, and certainly something that took place in the Indian soil and most probably in the North West India. We can see also these Indian Brahmins used the important insights of the Sumerian Agamism and Solar Cosmology to develop the Brahmanism and along with it the VarNas that has corrupted almost the whole range Hindu literature in Sk, back-grounding in this the Tantrism also available there. Below I provide some lines from Kes Temple Hymn( c. 2300 BC) that describes the temple personal and where we do not note anything like recitation of Vedic slokas, Yajna rituals Brahmins in the religious rituals and so forth. We have such personnel as : nu-es-bi( Ta. Nuul isaibi: the one who recites verses? Line 106), lugal bur-ra > Ta. uLugaL pura ( the chief of the temple ? line 107), en-du sa ese-la> eentu saan isai azai: the great one who sings the song of calls, line 108), a-tu > Ta. aadu: the dancer, line 109) tu-e > Ta. Tuuvee: the sprinkler> , line 110), lal-e > Ta. Laalliyee: those who sing the laali songs, line 111), en-kum-e-me: Ta. eeN kammniee: yogis? , line 112), pa-ses> Ta sisya: the young helpers, line 113) etc. The lines 113 onwards also descrine various rituals. The point here is that there are no Vedas of Brahmanahs mentioned in all these. The closest we in Sumerian is Babbar > Ta, paarppar( brahmains) but this only a description of a deity probably the Sun God as in as-im-babbar etc.
Kes Temple Hymn of En Hidu Anna, the Seventh Hymn
Discussions: akandabaratam : Message: Re: [Ind-Arch] Re: No Vedas and Brahmins in 'Sumerian Hinduism' Dear Yaswant Let me clarify myself again 1. 2. This applies even to Rajeev's notion that Brahmins are Intelligentia of India. See: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/IndiaArchaeology/message/11658 Now this again is simply false for great souls like TiruvaLLuvar Tirumular Appar Meykandar and so forth are NOT AT ALL categorized as brahmins. In the VarNa system they remain Sudras or Dalits. 3. In the Upanishads and in the story of Satyakama Jabala, the one who does not know who his father is, is called a Brahmin because he is a TRUTH seeker. Now TiruvaLLuvar was a Truth Seeker and who insisted the mark intelligence is seeking out the out the TRUTH no matter from it comes( meypporuL kaaNpatu Arivu). In the VarNas syatem TiruvaLluvar is a Dalit, belonging to the Valluvan caste. 4. I did NOT say there were NO priests in Sumerian Hinduism. Please read the post again and go down to the bottom. There is great list of priests in that Hymn which describes also their functions. I have also read many such hymns in SUmeroTamil. Nowhere I have come across the mention of Brahmins within the concept of VarNas. There is NO MENTION of Vedas also and Brahmins understood as the custodians of these Vedas. 5. But this does not mean the Sumerian Hinduism did not form the BASE for the yajna-centered Vedism which later also developed the varNasrama Dharma. The word Yajna itself is a variant of Su. ejen: fire festival. There was also the practice of VeLvi but within the Temple itself where they use the word'suluh; (Ta. suulai: fire pit). This practice still continues as part of Temple ritual to this day among the Tamils . What seems to have happened and in the Indian soil is the creation of Vedism with the isolation of YaJna practice as central and which also led to the formulation of VrNasrama Dharma and along with iit the creation of Brahmin as belonging to the highest of the VarNas. This appears to have been done by pushing aside the Tanric elements where the temple worship is also available. My present study of Hymn 1:23 provides the evidences. I think that this insight which I gather from my study of Sumerian literature should show us that Vedism along with VarNasrama Dharma is a MISADVENTURE and we should have the will to eradicate completely this VarNa Thinking and recognize the equality of all human beings. All human beings are Mumuksues, capable of Moksa and there no privileged individuals or scriptures at all. Loga --- On Sat, 1/15/11, ymalaiya <ymalaiya@yahoo.com> wrote: From: ymalaiya <ymalaiya@yahoo.com> Some components of what we know as Hinduism would satisfy this definition. Some would not - the yajna-based vedic religion was often specifically opposed to idols and temples, as can be inferred by the criticism of the devalakas in Manu-Smriti. The Hellenic and Egyptian religions were largely temple based, they would be Hindu by It is hard to imagine that a temple-based tradition would lack priests. Heriditary priesthood appears to have been common throughout the world. Priests specialized in learning and conducting ceremonies. The Hebrews had Levites, the Zoroastrians/Persians had Magi, and the Hindus had Brahmins, who owe their prestige to being descendants of distinghished individuals. Even the Muslims have Sayyids and the Chinese have Kungs. I don't know much about the Sumerian religion, but scholars tend to think they had priests: The Sumerians: their history, culture and character Deliver me from evil: Mesopotamian incantations, 2500-1500 BC Incidentally in Gujarat/Rajasthan, the temple priests in many (perhaps most) Shvetamabara Jain temples are Bhojak brahmins, who have been serving Jain temples since ancient times. You can identify them by their red dhoti. Yashwant What exactly is "Sumerian Hinduism"? In what sense was the Sumerian religion Yashwant Hi Rajeev I think you are introducing a new understanding of Brahmins where even the intelligent Buddhists and Jains can be called Brahmins. This is NEWS to me and seems to be a meaning outside the ideology of Brahmanism with its Catur VarNa and where the highest position is given to the Brahmins. As far as I know neither the Buddhists nor the Jains talk about VarNas. So also the Agamism of the Tamils that initiated the Bakti movement and which is already envisaged in Sumerian times itself The point I am making is that the category of priests called Brahmins and who are the highest VarNa in the VarNasrama Dharma is ABSENT in Sumerian Hinduism. This historical fact should make us ponder about the genesis of VarNas etc. Loga From: Rajeev <airavat15@...>
Let us not make this forum into a Political one like other Hindu groups. Please try to understand, whatever is being written should reflect a good taste of writers as well as that of readers. keeping this in view I do agree with the views of Dr. Debnath. It may be noted here that, all the inteligencia of earlier days of Buddhism, Jainism, Brahminism were all intelligent people and in literary terms all are Brahmins. At different point of times they became followers Jainism and their descendents again may became Buddhists, Vedic etc. Like present day people are changing loyalties in Politics. However, the leaders remain leaders wherever they move in. With Warm Regards, Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri
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