No Vedas and Brahmins in Sumerian Hinduism

மரபு விக்கி இருந்து

தாவிச் செல்ல: வழிசெலுத்தல், தேடுக

No Vedas and Brahmins in Sumerian Hinduism

Dr K.Loganathan Jan 2011

I have already shown in many of my studies that the religion available in Sumerian literature is the temple-centered Agamism(or Tantrism). Here we can locate the presence of Yajna as part of the Solar Cosmology, but there is NO MENTION of the Vedas and Brahmins as the custodians of these Vedas and Hinduism as such. Thus it appears that the composition of the Vedas, their organization into the Three and later Four Vedas and along with this the birth of Brahmanism with its evil and criminal VarNasrama Dharma, are later developments, and certainly something that took place in the Indian soil and most probably in the North West India.

We can see also these Indian Brahmins used the important insights of the Sumerian Agamism and Solar Cosmology to develop the Brahmanism and along with it the VarNas that has corrupted almost the whole range Hindu literature in Sk, back-grounding in this the Tantrism also available there.

Below I provide some lines from Kes Temple Hymn( c. 2300 BC) that describes the temple personal and where we do not note anything like recitation of Vedic slokas, Yajna rituals Brahmins in the religious rituals and so forth.

We have such personnel as : nu-es-bi( Ta. Nuul isaibi: the one who recites verses? Line 106), lugal bur-ra > Ta. uLugaL pura ( the chief of the temple ? line 107), en-du sa ese-la> eentu saan isai azai: the great one who sings the song of calls, line 108), a-tu > Ta. aadu: the dancer, line 109) tu-e > Ta. Tuuvee: the sprinkler> , line 110), lal-e > Ta. Laalliyee: those who sing the laali songs, line 111), en-kum-e-me: Ta. eeN kammniee: yogis? , line 112), pa-ses> Ta sisya: the young helpers, line 113) etc.

The lines 113 onwards also descrine various rituals.

The point here is that there are no Vedas of Brahmanahs mentioned in all these. The closest we in Sumerian is Babbar > Ta, paarppar( brahmains) but this only a description of a deity probably the Sun God as in as-im-babbar etc.


>>>>>

Kes Temple Hymn of En Hidu Anna, the Seventh Hymn
103 e-ku KU-bi e-nun ( The Holy temple, whose ...... is the princely temple)
*Ta. ilkoo KU-bi il nunnee ( The house of God, whose ..... is the shrine of excellence)
( e-ku > il koo . Ta. koo-il> kooyil, koovil: temple ; nun-e Ta. nunnee : lofty and hence excellent)
104. e-kes-ku KU-bi e-nun) (The holy Kes temple, whose .... is the princely temple)
* Ta. il keeci KU-bi il nun (The holy Keeci temple (inside which?) a shrine of excellence)
105. e en-bi (d) a-nun-na-mes ( The temple , whose lords are the Anunna-gods)
*Ta. il ENbi vaanunnaa meeyiccu ( The temple whose ruler are the heavenly beings)
( en Ta. eeN> veeN> veeL: lord, ruler etc. . veeL> veeLir: the kings of the ancient Tamil kingdoms. a-nun-na> Ta. vaan-nunna: the beings concealed in the skies and hence the heavenly beings, the gods who are there with the invisible mantra-bodies; me-s, me-es Ta. -icu, iccu etc. Now a singular marker of the non person gender as vanticcu , pooniccu etc. Also for the feminine gender)
106. nu-es-bi giri-la e-an-na-me-es ( Whose nu-es priest are the sacrificers ? of Eanna)
* Ta. nuul-icaibi kirialai el annai meeyaccu ( Those who recite verses go around the temple for the Mother )
( nu-es Ta. nuul-icai: reciting verses Ta. nuul: a text, nuval: to utter ; giri Ta. kiri: that which are extended and hence the legs here. la Ta. alai: to roam about. an-na Ta. annai: Mother Goddess)
107. e-e lugal-bur-ra am-mi-gub ( The lugalburra- priest stepped up to the temple)
*Ta. illee uLugaL puram aammee kubbu ( Inside the temple the chief of the enclosure always sits )
( bur-ra Ta. puram: fortress, citadel, an enclosure etc. gub Ta. kuppu, kappu , kuntu etc. : to squat)
108. en-du sa ese-la am-mi-in-la ( The good en-priest ... held the lead-rope? suspended)
*Ta. Veentu saan icai-azai azaimin aam ( The great one , the person sings the songs of calls, is there calling)
( es, ese Ta. icai: music, song etc. la Ta. azai: to invite, call etc. ; en-du Ta. veeNtu: the Great one, the king etc.)
109. a-tu sibir su bi-in -du ( The atu-priest held the staff)
*Ta. aadu civiRi cuurbiyin edu ( The eunuchs? hold the fans with their hands)
( a-tu Ta. aadu: the dancer? sibir Ta. civiRi : the fans made of fine hair. Also see Ta. cavuri: hair attachments)
110. tu-e a-ur-ra-a am-mi-tum ( The ... brought the gathered waters)
* Ta. tuuvee aal uuruva tuummin aam ( The sprinkler sprinkles running waters )
111. lal-e ki-ku-ga am-mi-in -tus ( The ..... took his seat in the holy place)
* Ta. laaliyee kiiz kooga tunjcuminin aam ( The one who sing the laali stays in the holy precincts itself)
112. enkum-e-ne ara ki am-ma-gal-le-es ( The enkum bowed down in prayer)
* Ta. eenkummu-y-inee aRai kiiz kaaliiccu aamma ( The dancers or yogis gathered in the lower grounds)
Enkummu: those who dance or remain in deep silence , ara : Ta. aRai: room
113. pa-ses--e-ne kus mu-un-sig-ge-ne ( The pases beat on the (drum-) skin )
*Ta. paa cissu-inee koosam mun siikkinee ( The youths beat on the (drum-) skin)
( pa Ta. paa: persons, -pa: the third person plural marker; ses Ta. cicu: child, ciiden : the student < Sk sisya; kus Ta. koocam: loud noise made as a group sig-ge Ta. ciikku: to beat)
114. e-sub uru-sub-a mu-ni-ib-be-e-ne (They recited the e-sub and uru-sub (verses)
* Ta il cuba uuru cuba munin immiyinee ( They recited the songs for the security and welfare of the temple and the city)
(sub Ta. cubam: safety security and welfare; ib-be Ta. immee: to mutter , to hum)
115. si-am-ma-ke gum-ga mi-ni-ib-za ( The bull's horn kept sounding)
*Ta. cii amaake gummaka iyamci minee( The bull's horn kept sounding)
(si Ta. cii : the peak, something sharp? cimam: the hill top, peak ; am-ma Ta. amaa: wild cow; gum-ga Ta. kummu: to crowd around as a herd)
116. (gis) al-gar-sur-ra suh-sah mi-ni-ib-za ( The drum sticks kept beating)
*Ta. yaaz kaalcuRRuva cuucaa mini iyamciya ( The harp with legs to stand made the sounds cuu-caah )
( al Ta. yaaz: harp gar-sur-ru Ta. kaal cuRRu : round legs? )
117. tigi nun-du-ge mu-un-du-a ( The " good prince" played the tympanum for them)
* Ta. tiki nun tungakee mun eduva ( They also played the tiki of fine and pleasant tones)
118. e al-du giri-zal-bi al-du ( The temple is built; its abundance is good!)
*Ta. il vaLattu kiirai caalbi vaLattu ( The temple is prosperous, the harvest is plentiful)
119. e-kes al-du giri-zal-bi al-du ( The Kes temple is built; its abundance is good)
*Ta. il Keci vaLattu kiirai caalbi vaLattu ( The Keeci temple is prosperous, the harvest is plentiful)
120 nin-bi DIN-bi mu-un-tus ( Its lady has taken a seat in its ...)
*Ta. Ninbi DIN-bi mun tunjcu ( Its lady is resting inside....)
121. (d) nin-hur-sag-ga nin-bi DIN-bi-a mu-un-tus ( Ninhursag, its lady , has taken seat in its ...)
*Ta. Ninoorsaangka ninbi DIN-biya mun tunjcu ( The lady of the mountain peak, its lady resides inside ....)
=>>>>>>
Note: Though I have not studied all the Sumerian Texts but have collected and studied quite a number of them and so far I have not come across any mention of Vedas and so forth while there are quite clear references to the Vedas even in the oldest C.Tamil literature like PuRa Naanuuru etc probably to be dated around 5oo BCE


Discussions:

akandabaratam : Message: Re: [Ind-Arch] Re: No Vedas and Brahmins in 'Sumerian Hinduism'

Dear Yaswant

Let me clarify myself again

1.
Now you are introducing another understanding of Brahmin' that does not apply in reality viz, a Brahmin means a priest. Now there are priests called Pandarams among the Tamils - the Chetiyars Kaundars and so forth have their own Pandarams and certainly they are NOT called Brahmins. So all priests are not Brahmins - there can priests and who are NonBrahmins.

2.

This applies even to Rajeev's notion that Brahmins are Intelligentia of India. See:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/IndiaArchaeology/message/11658

Now this again is simply false for great souls like TiruvaLLuvar Tirumular Appar Meykandar and so forth are NOT AT ALL categorized as brahmins. In the VarNa system they remain Sudras or Dalits.

3. In the Upanishads and in the story of Satyakama Jabala, the one who does not know who his father is, is called a Brahmin because he is a TRUTH seeker. Now TiruvaLLuvar was a Truth Seeker and who insisted the mark intelligence is seeking out the out the TRUTH no matter from it comes( meypporuL kaaNpatu Arivu). In the VarNas syatem TiruvaLluvar is a Dalit, belonging to the Valluvan caste.

4. I did NOT say there were NO priests in Sumerian Hinduism. Please read the post again and go down to the bottom. There is great list of priests in that Hymn which describes also their functions. I have also read many such hymns in SUmeroTamil. Nowhere I have come across the mention of Brahmins within the concept of VarNas. There is NO MENTION of Vedas also and Brahmins understood as the custodians of these Vedas.

5. But this does not mean the Sumerian Hinduism did not form the BASE for the yajna-centered Vedism which later also developed the varNasrama Dharma. The word Yajna itself is a variant of Su. ejen: fire festival. There was also the practice of VeLvi but within the Temple itself where they use the word'suluh; (Ta. suulai: fire pit). This practice still continues as part of Temple ritual to this day among the Tamils . What seems to have happened and in the Indian soil is the creation of Vedism with the isolation of YaJna practice as central and which also led to the formulation of VrNasrama Dharma and along with iit the creation of Brahmin as belonging to the highest of the VarNas. This appears to have been done by pushing aside the Tanric elements where the temple worship is also available. My present study of Hymn 1:23 provides the evidences.

I think that this insight which I gather from my study of Sumerian literature should show us that Vedism along with VarNasrama Dharma is a MISADVENTURE and we should have the will to eradicate completely this VarNa Thinking and recognize the equality of all human beings. All human beings are Mumuksues, capable of Moksa and there no privileged individuals or scriptures at all.

Loga

--- On Sat, 1/15/11, ymalaiya <ymalaiya@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: ymalaiya <ymalaiya@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ind-Arch] Re: No Vedas and Brahmins in 'Sumerian Hinduism'
To: IndiaArchaeology@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 7:05 AM

It seems that your definition of Hinduism is a temple-centered religion.

Some components of what we know as Hinduism would satisfy this definition. Some would not - the yajna-based vedic religion was often specifically opposed to idols and temples, as can be inferred by the criticism of the devalakas in Manu-Smriti. The Hellenic and Egyptian religions were largely temple based, they would be Hindu by

It is hard to imagine that a temple-based tradition would lack priests.

Heriditary priesthood appears to have been common throughout the world. Priests specialized in learning and conducting ceremonies. The Hebrews had Levites, the Zoroastrians/Persians had Magi, and the Hindus had Brahmins, who owe their prestige to being descendants of distinghished individuals. Even the Muslims have Sayyids and the Chinese have Kungs.

I don't know much about the Sumerian religion, but scholars tend to think they had priests:

The Sumerians: their history, culture and character
Samuel Noah Kramer

Deliver me from evil: Mesopotamian incantations, 2500-1500 BC
Graham Cunningham

Incidentally in Gujarat/Rajasthan, the temple priests in many (perhaps most) Shvetamabara Jain temples are Bhojak brahmins, who have been serving Jain temples since ancient times. You can identify them by their red dhoti.

Yashwant
Re: No Vedas and Brahmins in 'Sumerian Hinduism'

What exactly is "Sumerian Hinduism"? In what sense was the Sumerian religion
Hinduism? What is "Sumerian Agamism"?

Yashwant
Re: [ancientindia] No Vedas and Brahmins in Sumerian Hinduism

Hi Rajeev

I think you are introducing a new understanding of Brahmins where even the intelligent Buddhists and Jains can be called Brahmins. This is NEWS to me and seems to be a meaning outside the ideology of Brahmanism with its Catur VarNa and where the highest position is given to the Brahmins.

As far as I know neither the Buddhists nor the Jains talk about VarNas. So also the Agamism of the Tamils that initiated the Bakti movement and which is already envisaged in Sumerian times itself

The point I am making is that the category of priests called Brahmins and who are the highest VarNa in the VarNasrama Dharma is ABSENT in Sumerian Hinduism. This historical fact should make us ponder about the genesis of VarNas etc.

Loga

From: Rajeev <airavat15@...>
Subject: Re: [ancientindia] No Vedas and Brahmins in Sumerian Hinduism
To: ancientindia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 11:54 PM


Dear friends,

Let us not make this forum into a Political one like other Hindu groups.

Please try to understand, whatever is being written should reflect a good taste of writers as well as that of readers. keeping this in view I do agree with the views of Dr. Debnath.

It may be noted here that, all the inteligencia of earlier days of Buddhism, Jainism, Brahminism were all intelligent people and in literary terms all are Brahmins.

At different point of times they became followers Jainism and their descendents again may became Buddhists, Vedic etc. Like present day people are changing loyalties in Politics. However, the leaders remain leaders wherever they move in.

With Warm Regards,

Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri



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